The Queen Mary to UK visit

Fast forward to Roberts trip home on the Queen Mary 

Robert, Emily and Emily's sister Ethel Benn (Winnie?) plus perhaps Will Reed (Emily's brother) came to the UK and visited both Natalie and also came to Brentford to see my Mother, Elizabeth (Alisa Natalie Julian - also known as Betty) and my Dad John, in their house in The Butts. I know I was small and so was my brother William.  The big surprise was the huge car they came in with a running board.  He said he had a chauffeur but we think it may have been Will pretending.  Robert wore a white suit and the 'chauffeur' had britches and an hexagonal peeked cap. My Auntie said it was a Rolls Royce but all living relatives doubt this (including my Dad!).  However, we were taken on a ride on the running board which was great and he also gave us money to go down the shop and buy sweets - which we brought back so proudly.  I remember a thrilling day of relatives.

Robert Swetozar

Great Uncle Bob (Robert S) Papineau left England and went steerage to Canada.  First he got lodgings with a farmer in Manitoba and then managed to get a job on the railway cutting through the Rockies.  Finally on to a printing firm and a top job after training and then when the Manager died, he began his own business, printing newspapers.  Later, one of his own sons was a Canadian Mountie.

Home to London for Elizabeth

Elizabeth Mary - This photograph was taken in London by Window & Grove in Baker Street (they were photographers to the Royal Family here). Did Natalija suggest them?
I believe this is Elizabeth with one of her sons.  Her daughter was born in UK.

Naming the NATALIE girls

Natalija stated that she doubted she would have a girl child ever and Elizabeth was pregnant in 1884 and so she asked her to name her child after her in memory. 
And then down our line.... 
We believe that she gave a pair of diamond drop earings and these were seen back in London in 58 Dangan Road in a velvet case but when Uncle Ross died, they had gone.
Auntie Vera said they were for Natalie and she said she did see them.
Now you see why there was Natalie and then Ailsa Elizabeth Natalie, then Julia Natalie and then Alice Natalie.........  Rosa is also a Natalie .....  Martha - you could add in!!

Queen Natalie of Serbia

HM NATALIJA OBRENOVIC b. 1859, Florence as Natalia Keshko

This is Queen Natalija and Elizabeth became friends with her.  She married King Milan Obernovic IV of Serbia in 1875 and they had a son called Alexander.  She was the Moldovian/Russian Duchess of Serbia 1875-1882 and the Queen of Serbia 1882-1889. The King and Queen divorced in 1888 and then in 1889, her former husband abdicated and she became regent for her son.  Alex married a lady-in-waiting Draga and the Queen was finally banished by her son for opposing the match.  But King Alex & Draga were killed in a military coup in 1903 and Natalija became the sole heiress to the Obrenovic dynasty. She coverted to Catholicism and spent her remaining years as a nun in exile.  She died in 1941 in St. Daniel in France and her unpublished memoirs are kept at the Vatican.
King Milan had devoted great energy in his early reign to the improvement of communications and development of natural resources and this is when Rossall worked for him - I heard tell there was a bridge named Papineau - not the Canadian one but in Serbia.

Serbian Friendship

Elizabeth Mary Ann (in photo?) went to Serbia because Rossall was working on engineering projects for the King (Tyzar) and they lived nearby to the Palace.  She became friends with the Queen Natalie (Tyzarine).  There was a Papineau bridge in his honour.

Natalie & Norman

Norman Milton & Natalie - He was a large gentle man and I believe she adored him - I have their early love letters - and it is some collection - all to be sorted one day and read. They look happy here.  They lived at 58 Dangan Rd in Wanstead; a small house where I am told they once had a maid/my Mother had her tonsils out on the tiny kitchen table and it is also I believe where she nursed her Dad Rossall and where he died.  My Uncle Ross lived in this house until his own death.  My Auntie Vera (Alice Kaye) lived here for a while when she worked in London and I had a tape of her and Natalie chatting in the kitchen ........

(This photo on horseback is Dunloe 21/7/1916) 

Natalie & Norman Julian

Natalie's Brothers

These are the brothers in Serbia.  Below are details and their own children - later we will explore each child in detail.  We believe William is in the middle.

William Rossal Frank died aged 13 in Serbia.

Claude Michael Campbell (+Lucy), diamond cutter = Margaret Natalie (Lady Peggy) 19/11/1904 & Dorothy Lucy 4/1/1908 & Claude 14/5/1911 (died age 10 in 1922)

Walter Noel = Rossall, teacher & Newton, dispenser

Owen Frederick (+Nelly), Divisional Secretary NUT = Owen Calder & Roddie (Roderic Winston), RAF Pilot Officer (Died 1943) & Valerie Joan, Art Teacher

Robert Swetozar (+ Emily) = Robert William (1912) & Owen John (1914) & Rossall Tudor (1917),  & Ethel (Mickey) Margaret (1919) & Gladys Emily (1922) & Dorothy Mary (1924).

Natalie

Xmas Decorations

Today is Epiphany and my birthday and the day all of the Xmas decorations must come down and so - it is always a busy day for me!  Sometimes drunkenly! not always ........
Here are tree decorations which belonged to Natalie Papineau - I love to use them.

Visit To Montreal Appartment 2003

Eric McLean sent me to meet Jacqueline Westcott Papineau (Mary).  She was a steely woman who viewed me suspiciously despite my holding my Papineau bibles and memorabilia.  However, she did get her own huge Papineau bible and shared details but she did not recognise our line and said that the notes in the margins were by her husband who knew so much more and was now dead. He had notes on a Charles.  She then told me that she had gone back to France where the ancestors had lived and toured the area. 
My father lived in France and so we had much more to talk about now.  (I suspect many people may tell her they are relatives).  Her rooms were filled with lovely porcelain. As she went through louvered doors to get us coffees in the kitchen, they swung closed and my heart skipped a beat.  There, on the wall behind the door, was a painting of my Mother!  
Except apparently it was not - it was a family member from centuries ago and indeed she wore a slight thin bonnet in white - similar to the Amish style and I could see it was a delicate old picture.  What an incredible shock.

When I was back in England, I wrote again- but all my letters were returned unopened.

Antoine Papineau & The Privie

During my time in Montreal, I visited the Museum of Archaeology & History and remnants exhibit underground - the 'digs' and much to my surprise found a Papineau toilet!  Yes, a very early French settler had built two buildings around 1800 on the site of Fort Ville-Marie and his 'privie' had been found on top of the first Catholic cemetery and is on display.  His name was Antoine and he was a cooper.  I believe you can visit and see this today still. 

Papineau House, Montreal

The Papineau House, Bonsecours Street, Montreal

Politician Louis-Joseph Papineau (1786-1871) was the most famous Papineau and lived in one of the loveliest homes which he remodelled during 1831-1832 and the home's architecture and interior design reflected a mix of French and British influences.  Papineau's house was attacked in 1834 and 1837, first by Loyalists and then by members of the Doric Club, who were opposed to Papineau and the emancipation of the French Canadians. One day, I posted a letter through that black door for Eric McLean who lived there, asking him to lead me to a living Papineau ( of which more later) but I wish I had met Eric who apparently restored the interior to reflect again the days of L-J.

On that visit, I also walked to the Chapel Notre-Dame de Bonsecours which was at the end of this street and stood on the cobbled stones and wondered how many of my ancestors had also walked upon those stones.  Did one of us visit the restaurant across from the church where I drank coffee and pondered?

Immediate Family

Now to add some details:  The Immediate Family Members

Rossall Norman Julian (Ross) b 25.4.1918
Ailsa Natalie Elizabeth Julian (Betty/Elizabeth) b 22.5.1920     My Mother
Ronald (Ron) Julian b 5/8/1923
Parents = *Natalie Papineau b 31/1/1885 + Norman Milton Julian (from Cork) b 23/11/1884


William Rossal Frank b 13/3/1871 d 11/9/1884
Claude Campbell b 7/8/1873  d 2/8/1962
Walter Noel b 25/12/1876
Owen Frederic b 26/3/1880 d 21/6/1957
Robert Swetozar b 27/4/1883 (in Majdanpek Serbia)  d
*Natalie b. 31/1/1885  (married on 4/1/1915 to Norman)  d
Parents = Rossall William 20/8/1842-23/4/1918 + Elizabeth Mary Ann Watts   m 7/10/1869  
Rossall was the Manager of Mines at Majdanpek.  Here is Grandma Elizabeth.

Parents of Rossall William were William H Papineau & Harriet Campbell   m 5/6/1841
(They had 12 children)  Later we will explore their world and the siblings.

Papineau beginnings

Stories of the Papineau Family in the UK

Today is the perfect day to begin my PAPINEAU stories as it is my plan for the next three months to gather together the memorabilia and the people and the time lines and the details of my ancestors.

We know they are Huguenots and we know some went to Canada and we know my Nan was NATALIE PAPINEAU and married Norman Julian and lived in Wanstead, London.  She was a nervy woman of obviously high birth and instilled within her was the purpose to behave well within society.  She had three children:  Rossall, Alisa and Ronald.  My grandad came from Cork and I hold the truly caring love letters they sent during their courtship - sometimes the answers coming on the next post ( how did the PO manage that!).

I shall tell the story of the link with Serbia and why the girls along my line are called Natalie - Alisa Elizabeth Natalie, Julia Natalie, Rosa Natalie and Alice Natalie.  Martha = you will have to register yourself now! - and as for Ruby - well William, you have not been paying attention.  We should all be Natalie in memory of a fascinating Queen.

I want to find out whether we have links to Spitalfields in London and to determine once and for all whether we descended from the brother of the famous Papineau of the French Canadian Revolution.

My Uncle Ron was the spitting image of this revolutionary and my second cousin Richard looks nothing like them but lo!, his two boys do - and so you can see the family line quite clearly!

And so to begin the search and the restoration of the memorabilia to our relatives - to the brothers of my Nan and cheers to finding out what made us and where we all came from.